A Case for Hiring Neurodiverse Talent The ROI for Business & Society

Potentia believes a 21st century workforce should be innovative, inspired, and inclusive. Neurodiverse individuals, including those who are autistic, dyslexic, OCD, and ADHD represent one-quarter of today's workforce. Despite being highly qualified, over 80 percent with a college degree remain unemployed. By applying neurodiversity to analytics and harnessing the talents of people who are gifted in that space, Potentia has identified a game-changing job placement technology for helping businesses clarify job roles and hire diverse talent. Shawn Fry, chief innovation officer at Potentia; Deanna Jones, chief human resources officer at Baker Hughes; and Jeff Miller, chief executive officer at Potentia, looked at how Baker Hughes is partnering with Potentia to create a neurodiversity program ​that both helps current employees become fluent in neurodiversity and creates growth opportunities for a wide range of neurodiverse individuals as they bring different voices and perspectives when joining Baker Hughes. This session was moderated by Sandi Wright, '04TC, director at The Tamer Center for Social Enterprise

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Sandi Wright 0:15

Good evening, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. We are thrilled to have you here and welcome you to the tamer center for social enterprises social impact webinar series. For the MBAs in the audience. This session is part of the Philips pathway for inclusive leadership program for MBA students, which focuses on leadership, and managing Diversity, Equity and Inclusion across industries. So for the Columbia MBA students in the audience, you should virtually check in using the link that will be shared in the chat box below. We'll throw that out to you very shortly. Tonight, we're excited to host a panel discussion on neuro diversity, and how businesses can create growth opportunities for a wide range of neuro diverse individuals as they bring different voices and different perspectives to the table. It's my absolute pleasure to introduce our panelists tonight, we have Jeff Miller, who is the founder and CEO of potential workforce, we have Sean fry, who's the chief innovation officer of potential workforce. And we're also delighted to welcome Deanna Jones, who is the Chief Human Resources officer at Baker Hughes. As we begin our discussion tonight, I'd like to ask each of the panelists to introduce themselves and tell us a bit about their backgrounds before we dive into the questions. So I'd like to start by asking Jeff Miller to introduce himself. And give us a little bit of background as it relates to the panel tonight. So welcome, Jeff.

Jeff Miller | Founder CEO | Potential Workforce 2:03

unmute myself here. Thank you, Sandy. So so my background is, is really an intersection of the professional and the personal. I began my career and spent the last couple of decades in human capital, I started out in recruiting, moved into consulting, and then actually back into recruiting. It was running a global staffing company, here in Houston, a number of years ago. And it was a goal that I'd had for a long time to get to that, get to that position. And I had the corner office, and I was I was, you know, blessed and pleased to be in that role. And then the personal intervened, I should say that I'm also a husband and a father. I'm a parent to a wonderful teenager, who happens to be autistic. Charlie was diagnosed when he was six years old. And when he was 16, I was working in this role. And it became apparent to me that that what his mom and I had been doing, and kind of that year to year approach of supporting him as as an autistic youngster was, was gonna fall short at, you know, when I needed to start thinking about him at 26, or 36, I really needed to raise my game, and start thinking about what, what adult autism was going to look like. And I had to be honest with myself that I didn't really know. And so I began a research project as a just as a dab to learn what that was gonna look like for Charlie. And that led me to learn a number of things. Number one, just how big the population is, when you look at look at autism, first of all, and then neuro diversity more broadly, it's 20 to 25% of the population. A second, I learned about the challenges that folks face, who are neuro diverse, and just as an example, college grads, who are who are on the autism spectrum, face an 80% unemployment rate. And that just blew me away as a dad and as a as a business person. And then third, as I got, as I dug into it a little bit deeper, I learned of the incredible benefits that businesses are deriving when they hire and embrace neuro diverse individuals. And so when I put all those things together, I realized that that that corner office that I was in was not where I was destined to be. And, and really, it's all about Charlie, my son, who who really lit the spark for me, to to make that shift then and and step away from from traditional, a more traditional role and launch potential in 2019. And I'm sure we'll get into more details around what potential does and how we work with with our wonderful partner Baker Hughes, but that's a little bit My background.

Unknown Speaker 5:01

Thanks, Jeff. Shawn, may I ask you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit more?

Shawn Fry | Chief Innovation Officer | 5:08

For Sandy? Thank you. My name is Sean fry. I am. I'm 57 years old, and I am autistic. And for the most of my life, I did not know, well, I didn't know I was autistic. But most of the people around me did. I am, I'm here to answer questions that people might want to know. But I am pretty much the prototype very similar the model of what autism looks like. in that list, we honestly we just think differently. And we think divergently with the most majority of you think convergently very linearly, we happen to approach problems from a much different perspective. It doesn't mean we're not capable. Like when you talk about 80% unemployment, when the truth is most of my life, I've never gone on a job interview. He says you have a difficult time socializing. And you have a delicate time expressing yourself. I even asked to talk to my mom about it today, the most common thing my teacher would say is I don't express myself. It's uncomfortable. But there's social limitations do not mean there's cognitive deficits. They call it a learning disability. And in some cases it is, but the people that who you can be exposed to in this program, specifically, I'm going to speak to that you are in tune with people who approach things very differently. given the opportunity, I was put into a hospital situation where they had significant problems. And without any training or understanding, I was able to sort through complex data issues, fix their IT systems, up to give them a better understanding of not just technical issues, but clinical issues, diagnostic issues. This is part of what neuro divergence is, it's a different train of thought. I went on to become the CIO of three different hospital systems. What I grasped from seeing that these problems exist across the spectrum of hospitals. I went on to build a private company that just basically did this data analytics, looking at the way hospitals look at data differently, despite the billions and trillions of dollars that every year, I was able to find unique ways in which to apply data that not only made hospitals take better care of patients, but make them more profitable simultaneously. By thinking outside the box, I know in graduate school, they tell you as an MBA to, to look at things differently. That's really your job. neurodivergent individuals bring that out of the box thinking part and parcel with the encounter, and they will challenge you to look at things differently. And many times that fresh perspective is ultimately what creates the biggest difference, and why I thank you guys for coming and wanting to listen as to how we can contribute to you in society.

Unknown Speaker 7:52

I'm just gonna ask john, how many patents do you have?

Unknown Speaker 7:55

I have four that people are allowed to have access to and two that are classified.

Unknown Speaker 8:01

And leave that out. I know you aren't going to say it. So I needed to. thank thank you, Shawn. Deana, we would love to hear more about your role at Baker and your thoughts on this topic as before we begin the questions.

Unknown Speaker 8:20

Yeah, so I'll maybe start actually, with talking a little bit about Baker, and Baker Hughes and what we do. So we're an energy technology company that is working in over 150 countries around the world. We have a range of technologies, products and services that we deliver to customers in the energy space. And so naturally, we have a very diverse workforce, from a multicultural standpoint. And, you know, we're just really excited to continue to think about, you know, how we bring different talents into the organization. The challenges we face in the energy space today are super complex, you know, very important to the way that we function on the planet. And so we just really need the best and brightest minds across the widest span that we possibly can. So I think having that context, personally, I am the chro at Baker Hughes. I've been with Baker Hughes just over a year now. So I started just about eight weeks pre pandemic. And so it's been an interesting journey, getting to use all of the tools that we have today that allow us to do these things in a virtual environment. The change that we've seen has been pretty dramatic. I have over 25 years in the energy industry, a variety of roles. I started in finance and accounting and then moved over into human resources. I also had the opportunity to lead an operational unit for one of the companies that I worked with, specifically actually in the software data management and it field And, you know, Sean mentioned that a lot of people I would say, of our generation really didn't have the opportunity probably to be identified as neuro diverse. And I know for a fact just knowing what I know today about neuro diversity, that I've had the opportunity to work with a number of individuals who now know that they are neuro diverse, and have had, like Shawn, you know, very successful careers in their industries. And I would say that it was really leaders that took a personal interest in these talents, and just really seeing that they had something very different to bring to the conversation to the problems to the challenges that the companies that they were in faced, and, you know, really took the time to learn how they could meet them where they were, and what they needed in terms of how they could, you know, bring out their fullest potential. And I think that's really, you know, part of the journey that we're on from a baker standpoint with potential is really to help our leaders understand how we adapt the work that we do, how we do a better job of really identifying, interviewing, and then developing these neuro diverse talents. Because, you know, as Sean mentioned, they just have this ability to see the world from a completely different perspective. And given the complexity of work that we do. They're just an incredible fit for us as a company. Oh, and maybe I'll mention as well, because Jeff did, I'm a mother. And so a lot, obviously, I work with a lot of leaders and people who are parents. And, you know, I know a lot of people personally, you know, I mean, all of us, you know, there's something special about every child, right, you know, and so, as parents, I think we naturally want to be able to see the most come up out of every child that that is working and moving into the work environment. So yeah, I have two children, biological children, I have four stepchildren, so six kids. So lots of opportunity to help with that, that movement and that motion.

Unknown Speaker 12:07

Great. Thank you, Deanna. So I'd like to dive in and just talk about how Baker and potential workforce are working together and what that looks like. Because I think that we've we've established, kind of who we are and our backgrounds. And now I'd like to hear how these two companies have worked together. to, to come up with this program and and the success, it's achieved. In fact, Jeff, I'd love to hear more about the the expansion that you just found about today. So that's great.

Unknown Speaker 12:45

Sure, sure. So I think that the the work that we're doing with Baker, in some ways is is typical of work that we've done with other companies, in other ways, I think. And it's reflective of Baker in the innovation that that Baker is about, we're really taking it to a next level, which we're incredibly excited about. So what typically happens and what happened with Baker initially was a good customer, for us as a customer that that is already doing some things around diversity and inclusion, maybe they haven't done as much around neuro diversity, but it's the next logical step for that. That's often married with the idea that they've got a business problem that they need to solve. And in the case of Baker, it was managers coming to us, and talent acquisition actually coming to us and saying, We've got roles that we either, you know, having trouble filling or having trouble keeping filled just because of the shortage of talent that's out there that every company faces, beggars, a wonderful employer and an employer of choice for a lot of people. But but but every every employer faces this so. So we began pilots with them. Not, not surprisingly, and it because that's where a lot of the demand is and had very successful pilots with with Baker in that space. And then expanded in a somewhat traditional way, where we started looking at other skill sets outside of it, which is great for us, because in our in our experience, we see just as many or more non stem candidates than stem candidates and in in neuro diverse in our database, despite what what some people may have heard. And then we've been expanding geographically as well. In fact, we're, we're launching with Baker and in the United Kingdom, coming up in the next couple of weeks, which we're incredibly excited about the area where I think we're looking at an exploring where to even take it to the next level. And this really speaks to Baker in their innovative spirit is how do we create an ecosystem that supports those current There are diverse employees that may not disclose today. And how do we create an environment where we have resources where they can, they can tap into those resources? And they can, you know, they can they can leverage those and decide for themselves whether they want to disclose or not. But But either way, being in a supportive environment that allows them to fully engage with, with the work that they're doing and the employer that they that they work for. And also, how can we, how can we leverage the types of innovative thinking that that Shawn has really pioneered, frankly, in running multiple successful businesses around this idea of neuro diverse thought? And how can we leverage that neuro diverse thought amongst the leaders at Baker Hughes so that they can tap into that, and and, and not only benefit from neuro diverse employees, but benefit from that neuro diverse thought? So it's a really exciting, you know, place we're in right now. And it's it's growing, expanding in a number of different areas really ought to be all to the credit of of our partner banker.

Unknown Speaker 16:10

Can I just go back? You mentioned the pilot. And then you mentioned identifying the needs at at Baker and how you can, what are those next steps, right, you've you they've identified the need. On the company side, you have a database of talent, you've got this great neuro diverse pipeline, what what then happens, what's the next step? Because I know potential is unique, and that it doesn't, their focus isn't on, you know, changing the individual to fit into the company, but rather changing the culture and thought process at the company in order to be more accommodating and understanding of these, could you just take us through what that looks like?

Unknown Speaker 16:54

You bet. And thank you for asking that question. Sandy. It's it without getting too into the weeds on it, that there's potentially is a majority, neuro diverse, we're distinct organization, right? We've got neuro diverse, nervous thinking individuals throughout our organization, and they tell us, this part of who they are, right, they're there, they want to be their best selves, but they're not looking to have someone cure them. Right. They are incredibly passionate, talented individuals who may need some supports along the way. But the real key is, is in creating environments where they can thrive. Right, so our program is is is called stars for reason. It's spectrum training, recruitment and support. And one of the things that surprises some people when they're new to neuro diversity is that a lot of our training is for the employer. It's it's training employers how to interview onboard and manage individuals who are neuro diverse successfully, and how to help support them so that they can be their best. How do you? How do you how do you interview onboard? And then how do you ultimately career path because you know, we're not just interested in making placements, we want our folks to be in careers where they are adding increasing levels of value to Baker and to our other partners as they go. So. So that's really how the process lays out. It's a little different in every environment. You know, we we know that every company is different. And every company has real strengths that lend that lend to this program. And so we want to, we want to capitalize on those strengths, but then recommend maybe some tweaks here or there that will allow neurodiverse individuals to thrive. And so that's, that's really what stars is all about. And it's really, you hit on Sandy, it's about just creating an environment where individuals can, can can thrive.

Unknown Speaker 18:53

That's great. Thanks, Jeff. I'm going to turn it over and ask Dan a question. So why neuro diversity? You know, why is it important to Faker? And why we're, you know, why was Baker's So, you know, interested in embracing this idea of bringing these neuro diverse individuals into the company?

Unknown Speaker 19:15

Yeah, so, a couple of things. So first of all, you know, we have an incredible commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion across the entirety of Baker. And as we sort of started our journey as an as an energy technology company. So we, you know, came out of, you know, a combination of an oilfield services company and a piece of a legacy GE business. And so, as we really started to form and shape, what are the things that we want to be focused on And who are we and how do we show up as a company, one of the areas that we spent a lot of time taking a look at was that inclusive area and so just sort of testing the processes that we have and when you look at recruiting Training and Development, you know, over time, there were a lot of things in there that create biases, and you end up with, you know, very homogeneous groups of people. So I think as the recruiting team really started to look at their practices and say, how do we create job descriptions? You know, how do we have recruiting practices that give us the widest possible range of talent? You know, our recruiting leader actually came in contact with potential and so you know, they're there, they have this stars program, you know, there's already some work that's being done there in terms of you know, how you look at this specifically for neuro diversity, but it has this broader application for the way we look at talent and in general. And so then when you say, okay, you know, what are the things that we're working on as Baker. So, you know, we've talked about, you know, we have digital transformation going on across the entire energy industry. So these are really complex problems. There's, you know, the application of technology, but also how we think about change. And when you start to say, Well, how you think about change, again, that different perspective, you know, has a real application in that area, then we think about energy transition and the ambitions that companies and countries have to decarbonize the work that they do and achieve net zero, again, super complex problem, you know, lots of interlocking inter layer, and we found in that area as well that, in some cases, you know, we're using the tools and techniques that we've developed with potentia. And that program, and we've hired neuro diverse individuals without it being specific to this program. But also, you know, as we start to be more vocal about the conversation we're having, we're finding more and more that people are coming forward and saying I'm neuro diverse. And this is a great program to help me understand, you know, how I can continue to progress my career, so you have more leaders that are saying, I'd like to understand this, because I think it helps me, as a leader bring a more diverse set of talents to my table, which is beneficial for the organization, because we're thinking about problems, you know, across a number of different aspects. And then, you know, we're just creating these really great opportunities, and you're hearing on both sides, right? You know, so you have individuals that are saying, this is a great place for me to work, I really see how to bring my talents to the team, and you have leaders saying, This is creating better teams for me to address the complex problems that we have. So you know, I think it's just a virtuous cycle that that we get into, but I think it really was, you know, a couple of leaders who had a passion around Dei, and, you know, sort of saying, Hey, this is an area of focus. And we feel like this is a really great partnership for us to think about different talents coming in. And so, you know, as Sean was talking about, you know, digital technology is a really great entry point, stem is one area. But when you talk about energy transition, you know, these are people that are looking at, you know, public policy, you know, social conversations, everything we're doing around ESG. So, again, you know, just this mix of things where you want people who think differently, and who aren't afraid to bring their voice into the, into the room in a way that's meaningful. And so it's just been, like I say, like, you know, it's, there's elements of it that are very, you know, us, you know, having a structured pilot and elements that are just sort of now building off of off of each other. But I think it just comes from wanting the best and brightest talent set that you can possibly have dealing with complex problems.

Unknown Speaker 23:42

Thank you, Deanna. I'd like to move on and ask Shawn, you know, after hearing that, and about how, you know, wonderfully open minded Baker Hughes is and understanding the rich, you know, assets that neuro diverse individuals can bring to the table. Can you can you tell us a little bit about the barriers you encountered, encountered, you know, as you began your career, you know, and and how a program like potential stars is really completely turning that around and shifting the entire narrative for these individuals changing the trajectory of their lives, but also for these companies, being able to, you know, access that talent and harness it to their, you know, to the benefit of their ROI.

Unknown Speaker 24:32

Sure, I mean, the, I mean, Deana hit right on the point of what we're talking about bias, right? But, you know, I can go through the biases that I faced as a child not knowing how to interact with other people, and I can't speak for the type of biases that people face with being a woman or being black or things like that. But bias in and of itself is a product of groupthink, right? neurodivergent individuals, we do not have that inherent bias that other people do. Our willingness to challenge the way things are done or brings that level of diversity of thought, and inclusion automatically into it by breaking boundaries by challenging what the social norms are. And my greatest bias seemed to come from the fact that I refuse to conform to social norms, I, I would, I would go to work, and I would be there on time, and I would do my job, but I wouldn't eat lunch with the people, I wouldn't go to happy hour. So we go to birthday parties, and they see you as antisocial, when that's not the case. But I really don't know how to conduct myself in a social environment. I mean, I tell us to I there was over 20 years, I did not walk into a bank, because I don't know how to fill out a form. And I have multiple patents and mathematics. I have solved critical issues that have been that have confused doctors for years, I can do these complex things. But there are many things in which I may struggle and it may be with other people faced by us whether it's a speech impediment, or Ay, ay, ay the ability to speak under pressure, the ability to challenge the fear of challenging something. When I ran my company, and I started hiring people as I moved away from the hospital, because, as nd, an ND neurotypical, a traditional company, part of our anthropological imperative is to create competition and create stress, that is to the benefit of those who are in charge to those who are subordinate. It creates anxiety, which becomes a liability to those to their cognitive process, to their efficacy as a worker. When I built my company, I just when I chose and chose people who were, I wanted to build around the company in my image, my original intention was to find people who were going to accommodate me like I never, you know, there's no point to it. being angry I do. I do face anxiety like everybody else. But when I selected the people, I didn't necessarily always select people who were neuro diverse, who are autistic. But many people can be neurodivergent people with PTSD, for example, there are many products of society, women in particular, who've had difficult childhoods, you've had difficult marriages, you've had tragic events, and it helps shapes their cognitive ability. PTSD creates things like hyper vigilance, hyper vigilance can be a weakness, and it can be a limitation. But given the crit, right work environment, which is part of what neuro divergent training is, and giving those people the opportunity to, to suggest what they see, to complain to turn a complaint into a brainstorming session. Some of the most brilliant ideas I ever came up with when it came to clinical protocols. We're not from doctors with PhDs or MDS, they are from people who observe patterns behavior day in and day out. People don't ever give nurses credit for how many lives they say, because the doctor gets the credit for it. But the fact of the matter is, these people paying attention, they were hyper vigilant to the care level of your child of your mother or father had great intrinsic information, tacit information that once it was unleashed radically change the course of care, we're not talking about the tune of a million dollars, we're talking 10s of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars of impact, simply by allowing that person to have a voice in a chair and being patient enough to hear what they had to say. And if they don't have to say it that day, give them a little bit of time, because even when I got my patents, you know, when I submitted the work, there was no solution. I came up with one. When I submitted the work, there was nobody in the patent office, he could understand the mathematics I put together. But it worked.

Unknown Speaker 28:57

So they sent it out to Stanford, to the Palo Alto Research Center, who was able to put together the mathematical structures we had. And that's the patents were created. And we went on to solve a lot of big problems for NASA for Texas Instruments for Nortel, things like that. I have no classic mathematical training. I wish I went to Columbia. I wouldn't have known how to fill out the form to get in nor would have been accepted. But that's the difference between neuro diversity. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't necessarily come in a package that you would expect it to come in. We're regular people who want to do a good job. We're going to be persistent work through problems beyond we we do what's called per separate per separate is incredible focus. You'll know a lot of you'll know a lot of aspects, people with Asperger's syndrome. They've built big companies like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Albert Einstein, Elan Musk, these were people who had Elan musk walked into room one day said I'm going to put somebody on Mars privately. He's well on his way to doing that. I mean, Nobody's stopping him. Why? Because he's challenging the way we think about things. Waiting for a bureaucrat to figure out a way to charter a path to Mars is never going to happen. It takes somebody who thinks outside the box and marshals the resources, and finds the people who can make a plan. And that's, that's something where I'm grateful for everyone that gives the person the opportunity to speak up from a neuro diversity perspective. So thank you.

Unknown Speaker 30:26

That's great. Thank you, Shawn. I wanted to ask Jeff, about you mentioned about having a majority neuro diverse team? And what types of practices have you employed in order for all of those voices to be heard? How, how, how have you changed as a leader in terms of making sure that Shawn who is on your team and neuro diverse and other members of your team are set up for success and not in a situation where they don't want to bring their voice to the table, or, you know, challenge, an idea that you have? Or I like, when we spoke before how you talk about how you, you don't tell them how to do something, you say, Okay, here's where we need to be? give me give me how, you know, let me know how you're going to do it. So if you could speak a little bit about that.

Unknown Speaker 31:20

Sure. Sure. And, and what Shawn was talking about, and we we teach this, we talk about inclusive leadership and real tenant of that a psychological safety. And psychological safety basically just says that, you know, you're free to make mistakes, and you're free to challenge authority. And that that's okay. And in fact, that's encouraged. Because when you hire smart people, especially smart people who think differently, you'd be foolish to to ignore that. Right. So I think, I think underpinning all of this is that idea of inclusive leadership and psychological safety. But again, I'll give you three three best practices that that have worked for us. Number one is ask the person, right, because as neurodiversity takes hold, there's a there's a tendency to think that every nervous individual is the same. And that is totally false. Right? There's a tendency to think that folks are our skill sets, and not think about the whole person. And, you know, we're talking about millions and millions of people. So I'm delighted with the fact that that the neurodiversity movement has, has, has as gained some, some some purchase. But the next step for us is to is to really move beyond this kind of two dimensional view. And so I always say, number one, ask the person, don't assume that because someone is nerd averse, or not get rid of the label. You know, we practice Person Centered leadership, and potential, it's about the individual and how to help them to to really, really, you know, do their do their best. Number two, and and Sandy, you talked about this, you know, define the what, and define the why, but don't define the how. Right, so if we're, if I'm in the, if I'm defining the house, then I am limiting our ability to succeed based on my intellect. And that's a scary proposition, ask the people who work for me. So, you know, I hire people who are much smarter than I am. And if if, if we, you know, come together and talk about what we want to achieve, and why we want to achieve it, the how needs to be given wide berth. So that so that individuals can come with different ways of getting there. And then the third thing I would say is keep the main thing, the main thing. So the fact that Shawn doesn't want to go to a holiday party, is is not it is not relevant. It's not something that we should spend a second on. Right, Shawn is brilliant. Shawn has built three companies. He's been a CIO of multiple hospitals. If I'm going to get hung up on the fact that you know, he is is not wanting to go to this holiday party, shame on me. Right. Keep the main thing, the main thing, let people do what they do best. Let them let them you know, navigate the how. And when in doubt, ask the person and don't assume I think if you do those three things. You're you're on the right track.

Unknown Speaker 34:49

I think Jeff made the key point. I don't mind when people ask me questions about it. Right. I don't mind answering questions about why I want how I'm processing things. Why I my why that noise is distracting me, or things like that. We're not I mean, not everyone is the same. But if you're unsure, I'll be able to help you to answer anybody's questions you want to ask them about what it's like to engage or what's appropriate to ask. I don't care if you call me a person with autism or an autistic person, those things don't bother me. They bother moms A lot of times, but for me, as long as you address me in a respectful way, I'm happy to talk to you or answer your question. So anyway, slowly weigh in on that. Yeah, people are afraid. We're, you know, we're not we do. We may not understand if you use sarcasm, but we just want to say, I am constantly tripped up by sarcasm. It's just part of the process, which is, but it's funny if I missed the joke. I laugh. It's funny. It's okay. You're not embarrassing. So, anyway,

Unknown Speaker 35:55

thank you. Shawn. Deana, you mentioned earlier that it's working with potentia has helped not only the neuro diverse individuals, but the leaders and as a whole, and also encourage people to feel safe enough to disclose that they are neuro diverse. Can you just touch upon that? And and and, you know, how that what that what that looks like?

Unknown Speaker 36:28

Yeah, and I think I wrote down actually, because I thought it was really great the way Jeff describes this person centered leadership. And I think that's the biggest aha for our leaders, when they go through the training is really just that everyone actually benefits from being considered a person and not a skill, or a subset of skills and, and that there isn't really a generic approach to leadership, right? leadership is about taking the time to really know and understand your team, and how you bring out the best in each and every person on your team. And so that's why I think it creates the safe environment where people recognize that shift in their leader when it's like, oh, you care about me as a person, and you want me to be successful, not only in the work I'm doing but in continuing to develop myself and challenge myself. When you get to that point as a leader than that creates that psychological safety that Jeff was talking about, you know, I can I can say things that I need to say I can challenge authority, I can bring my ideas to the table and not fear that it's not okay. And so then then you say, well, then it makes me feel comfortable to bring my whole self to work. So I can talk about the fact that I'm neuro diverse. And, in fact, what I would say is some of the teams we have people have been disclosing other things about themselves that you're like, oh, okay, well, that's great. You know, and so it again, that empowers the whole team. Because we feel connected, you know, we all again, going back to we all have something special or unique about us. And I think that that's the way, you know, to see it is it's not an impediment, it's something that makes us special and unique, and allows us to bring something different, you know, it's it's different talents that actually solve these complex problems. You know, like Jeff said, I mean, I work with teams every day that I know, are way smarter than I am. And, you know, one of the first leaders that I worked with said, you always want to surround yourself as a leader with really smart people, because that's your job as a leader is to bring smart people to the table and let them do their thing. And so empowering them and realizing, oh, I don't have to be the smartest person in the room. And I shouldn't be the smartest person in the room, if we're going to solve all of these complex problems. I think, again, that just blossoms when we talk about having a culture of inclusivity it's really when people feel safe to bring their whole self to work. And that they feel that there'll be seen for who they are and developed for who they are. And given the opportunities based on how they how they show up and what they can do not based on whether they know someone or they're playing politics, or any of the other things that I think are oftentimes frustrating about organizations and the way they operate. So it's just, you know, the training that everyone goes through, I think as a leader, you just realize the value that it has to everyone, whether they're neurodiverse or not, and then it just creates the safety for people to be open.

Unknown Speaker 39:36

That's great. And that's a perfect segue into before I turn it over to asking the audience for their questions. I wanted to ask Shawn, can you tell us a little bit about the environment that you created at prevalent it sounds like it mirrors this safe, psychologically safe environment that Deanna talked about? And how it just empowers everyone to be who they are and have their best selves shine. How much when you when you when you were selling your company to private equity? How many? What was the turnover rate, like how many, how many employees left to?

Unknown Speaker 40:18

Well by implementing a big part of what potential does and what we're working with Baker Hughes on as I ran my company for 15 years where we started, but no seed capital, just just some narrow divergent thoughts and a plan about revolutionising how healthcare data was analyzed. Then my company went on for 15 years, and we were quite successful when we were we had clients with some of the most made the biggest hospital systems, not just in the US, but around the world. And what I had not known and I and again, as a businessman, I'm a businessman who doesn't like to have meetings, and who has no time orientation and things like that. We, we were very different from other companies. But the work product still still was the yield, after implementing those policies, and I knew other people felt similarly, what I didn't know as, as I was going through the six months of due diligence before private equity, bought my company, they came and asked me, hey, okay, this is great. Hey, where are your turnover files? Where's all? I mean, how many employees do you have? I said, Well, currently about 150. Well, where are all the where all the people that quit? Nope, nobody ever quit. I hadn't realized it was a thing that I've got working for potential workforce, I realized, employees turn over all the time, if you build a psychologically safe place, I mean, true, we pay competitive rates, but the odds of no one wanting to quit. The people that work through and people didn't take sick days, either. They felt safe, they wanted to go to work. But if you had a problem, you had a person to come to and say, Hey, I'm having a bad day, or my kids having a bad day. They all we always were able to pick up that, that slack for each other. And it built incredible level of unity. And we were at as far as a company we talked about, we were predominantly people of color, predominantly women, I hired a female CEO, just to be able to show people that Bs, it wasn't even intentional, I didn't have a political bias, or I just, it just worked. But if we want to be a diverse and inclusive organization, we need to create an environment that works for diverse, inclusive, diverse and inclusive of other people, thought culture, different neuro types. All of these elements are what the recipe of success are. So anyway, it does work we were for 15 years, we were proof positive, that it is worth to make an investment in bringing these policies into the workforce.

Unknown Speaker 42:58

That's wonderful. I just want to add on to that, that and potentially applies the same, the same methodology. And it's it's that that lack of turnover doesn't mean that there was this wasn't an incredibly and the potential is not a very high performing organization. Right. I mean, the results were, were are were and are exceptional. It's just that people felt it and those reinforced each other. Right. I think I think some people hear that they think, Okay, well, we just, you know, we it was it was like a country club or something couldn't be farther from the truth, right? I mean, the goals were aggressive, and they were and Shawn drove it and Shawn Nye drive it now with with, you know, with potentia, and we've got big things that we want to do. We want to move the needle on this unemployment rate for millions of people. We've got big goals. But we can do it in a way that that that that embraces diversity embrace, and in fact that those are those are not only they're not contradictory philosophies, they're actually reinforcing philosophies. Great, thank you.

Unknown Speaker 44:14

A critical element. Hiring neurodivergent people is not a charity case. We are a bottom line for profit, disruptive, positive force. And a lot of people think it's otherwise when they said when I talked about my work with different foundations and raising awareness on neuro diversity, it's not because Don't get me wrong, there are people there are always going to people who need assistance, but there is a tremendous potential. That's the name potential in what we are capable of doing. Thank you for listening.

Unknown Speaker 44:45

Thank you. We're running out of time and I see a couple of questions from the audience. So I'm going to ask Casey Buckley, who is an MBA student, here on the stage with us to feel those questions. And for the mentor panel.

Unknown Speaker 45:04

Thanks so much, Sandy. Hi, everybody. I recognize some of the names in the participants list. But Casey Buckley third year with the dual degree program between CBS and SEPA, and currently leading a small business consulting program project with potential. So really excited to see the turnout this evening. And feel free to reach out if you want to learn more about what my team and I are working on this semester. The first question we have from Kenneth So first of all, Kenneth thanked everybody on the panel. So he had a question for Sean. So Sean, he'd love to hear more about what advantages and disadvantages communicating over zoom has for people with autism compared to in person communication?

Unknown Speaker 45:54

That's a good question. Well, it just, it's not really a joke, like when the world went on lockdown about a year ago, and people started social distancing. And I was like, Okay, I was already doing that. I have two children who are also on the spectrum and my youngest daughter still at home. And we're like, Okay, this is good. Zoom, is a little bit of a challenge in that we aren't I'm not good at eye contact, as you can probably tell, I'm not sure where to look where the appropriate places. So it's even harder for us to look at a camera, when I've got three screens, and I'm not sure where to look, that part's a challenge, but it is wonderful. It's actually made me more social. Because I don't have to focus all of my energy on getting to a meeting. I hate to drive, I have no time direction, orientation, or, or directions, I get lost everywhere I go still to this day. Zoom actually concentrates everything. So I'm more focused, more productive. And I'm very grateful for zoom.

Unknown Speaker 46:59

Thank you. Yeah. And then second question. So I see from SC how do we show quantifiable results, to bring on board mainstream companies to get them to invest in neuro diverse employees? This seems like Jeff, potentially a great question for you, as well as some of our the overall ROI model that we're currently working on with the small business consulting progress program. But Deana I think this could also be a follow on answer from you just to hear a little more about Baker's thought process, you know, tactically, what does that look like? And, you know, what are some of the steps that are taken? So I'm not sure if either of you have a view on that, you know, who would like to answer first, but certainly a lot there.

Unknown Speaker 47:50

Sure. I'll, I'll take it first. And then and then hand it over to Deanna and Casey, you're right, you can answer this question as well. I think the the benefits are profound, right? And when we started, we were really focused on that access to talent, right? So if there's an 80% unemployment rate for college grads, who are who are autistic, right, then that's a huge population that companies are just missing. Right? And so access to that talent is is is number one. Number two, it's what that talent brings, when that talent comes, you know, comes to work for you. So what we're talking about here, we don't want to generalize, you know, every individual who's neuro diverse is different. But the data shows that across, you know, wide swaths of people, you see very high productivity, very low turnover, and very high new skill acquisition. Right. So you put those three things together, and it's like, what you're talking about a basically an ideal employee, and a lot of ways, although they may need some supports or accommodations in some in some areas. But again, keep the main thing, the main thing, if you can get low turnover, high productivity, high skill acquisition, what else do you want? Right? And, and, and then the third thing, and this this, this really surprised me, the level to which this I knew that it existed, but it surprised me the level to which this is true, is that everything that we implement, so that neurodiverse individuals can can gain purchase with these with these employers, wonderful employers like Baker and others, benefits accrues benefits to the entire population. Right? So so the things that work when you're creating a, let's say, a mentor program, which is really helpful for our neuro diverse individuals, when they're starting a new environment, and they don't just have a manager, but they have a mentor who knows their job and can help them understand, you know, really what's, you know, what's expected Those mentor programs were great for everybody. They weren't great for neurotypical people who are coming on board, right? If you have a really good onboarding program, right, and you really lay out the expectations, clearly, because you need to do that for your, for your, your, your neuro distinct individuals, that's going to work great for everybody. And more to the point, not just on an individual level, but on a team level, and on an organizational level. Right, so the teams become more cohesive, because they're, they're communicating more honestly about where they are, what their challenges are as individuals and how they can work better together. And as organizations, that, you know, the leaders become better communicators, and overall employee engagement tends to increase, because these are just very popular programs, people want to work for companies that support diversity, so so people who may not be anywhere near a pilot, that we're running here about it, and feel better about the employer that they're working for. So, you know, the benefits are, are substantial. And, and, and, and more, more wide ranging than then then even I thought, when I started potential, I would probably just

Unknown Speaker 51:16

add, you know, to Jeff's point about, you know, the performance of the teams, right, and the way that we've been sort of, you know, looking at our monitoring the work that we've done in our pilots, you know, I mean, you know, it's like, you're focused on the task, it gets done well, you know, high productivity, you know, low turnover, I mean, people are happy, they're engaged. I mean, all of that are things that we measure naturally. But the other thing that I would probably add from a measurement standpoint is one of the things that that we measure is our inclusion factor so and to just and Bo, Shawn's point, you know, where it's like, if you do a good job here, then it just pays dividends across the entirety of your organization, because it goes back to leaders are paying more attention to how they bring out the highest potential and everybody on the team. And so you want to work in an environment where you feel like the company is vested in you and your development, and that you can perform it at a high level in that scene. And so that would be the other thing that I would say that we're going to watch and monitor is for teams that actually are piloting here, are they scoring higher on that inclusion survey, and other teams that have not participated in the pilot will be able to see some of that?

Unknown Speaker 52:36

Awesome, thank you. So we're coming up on time shortly. But we have a couple of questions that seem to be addressing the same area of concern. So they're both about smaller companies. And you know, there are noted benefits of smaller companies in that they're able to more easily offer individualized work environments. But there may be some difficulty for those smaller companies in sourcing neuro diverse talent. So I see two questions here asking about, you know, in one case, Marcy is an HR director at a small book growing tech company. And then we have Cathy asking more generally just about small businesses. But Jeff, maybe this might be great to hear from you in terms of the difference between stars versus some of the other offerings app potentia. And then similarly, for a follow on answer, Shawn, maybe, would love to hear what your talent sourcing looks like, throughout your experience in business and just understanding how you build that inclusive talent pipeline?

Unknown Speaker 53:38

Sure, so I'll I'll start. So we have a couple of different offerings, at the beginning of 20. Way back when it's hard to think back to those days, but when we were at three and a half percent unemployment, and I was looking at the stars program as a workforce program. And I thought, well, we're not going to be a three and a half percent unemployment forever. So you know, let's, let's think about what we need to do. And I also had the benefit of of a brilliant partner and Sean who run projects for decades. And I thought, we need to create another option who want to access neuro diversity, but maybe don't have the ability to hire a bunch of people. Now, our pilot programs tend to be three to six people, so they're not big numbers. But for a company that's got 20 employees that that might be a, you know, a, you know, a bridge too far. But what we do is we offer the ability to outsource projects, leveraging that neuro diverse talent run by Shawn. So it's that same ability to be innovative to think of think of things differently to to approach creative solutions, and to get exposure to to not only nourish individuals, but neuro diverse thought, but to do it in a way where as a smaller company, maybe you've got a project You need to get done and you want to see if it can be done. Again, we get our job is to deliver just as well, if not better than anybody else, but to bring that level of creativity to it. So our stars program can work for big or small companies, but we've seen that stars tends to work, or tends to hue a little bit more towards some of the bigger companies like a banker. And the projects piece tends to tends to hue, although they can work either way, towards some of those smaller companies that maybe don't have the the ability to hire a handful of people, but they want to experience that, that, you know, idea of nervous thought and and get real ROI from it. And so that's another way that we do that. And and Shawn runs that program for us, that projects program for us exceptionally well. Great. JOHN,

Unknown Speaker 55:56

do you want to comment, it's a good way of looking at it as neurodivergent individuals have a tendency to be polymaths, they have multiple skills, multiple dimensions, and they're quick, very quick learner. So if you're a process oriented business, or a tech oriented business, it's it's probably worth it to a higher neurodivergent individual. And the best way to test that would be through a project. Let us come in, look at a project you have. I advise everyone give us the hardest thing, what's the most bang for your buck? Give me your hardest problem to solve. And watch what happens. And it's a great way of trial by fire and see what we can come up with. We can come up with a project plan and a project roadmap that exceeds your expectations. But it would give you an idea of what neuro divergence is capable.

Unknown Speaker 56:47

Thank you so much. I'm really looking at the clock. So I'm going to speed speed up this last bit. We have one final question. And actually before before I go on, if anyone else has specific questions for Jeff about the talent, pipeline and recruiting, you know, please reach out to him directly. If you go to potential potential workforce calm, he'll be able to answer you directly, because we are running out of time. But the final question, if you can each Give, give us one sentence on what this audience can do to continue this important work and to be more inclusive and the nerd with to the neuro diverse convene community. Jeff, I'll start with you.

Unknown Speaker 57:33

Sure. One of the one of the buzzwords that's coming up these days is intersectionality. And I would just say that it's worth noting that neuro diversity does not distinguish by gender, race, origin, right? So so if you're gonna, if you're going to embrace diversity, equity inclusion, you really need to include neuro diversity in that if you want to do it effectively. Great. Shawn, you want to go next

Unknown Speaker 58:07

up? Well, I've been doing just as a commentary on what you've said, the population of neurodiverse individuals, has probably your most weight, there's always some other facet about them. There are a tremendous number of who are gender just work non binary, LGBTQ, it just just comes with it. And the other thing about it is that I want to state for those who wanted to study things, the vast majority of people who've been who've been diagnosed with autism are male, four to one is the current ratio. Part of my research is about finding out better diagnostic criteria for women, and better diagnostic criteria for people who come from alternative cultures, simply because all the observational criteria about people with autism is coming from neurotypicals, who studied pretty much white males. So we collectively as a group are very divergent group, diverse, diverse number of people. And we do bring a lot of just something that should be known. I'd like to bring awareness to so I'm not sure if that helps answer your question. But

Unknown Speaker 59:14

no, absolutely. I think I think that's really important to know, it is important to know for this audience to take away, Deana I'll let you take the final piece of this.

Unknown Speaker 59:24

Yeah, I think for me, the the thing that I would encourage is to be open and curious about the just the idea that people are different and that we should be considering talent from a unique perspective. I think there's been a lot of work done to sort of like say there's types or this or that or put people into various boxes of all different sorts. And really, I think as leaders of the future, it really is the How do I get to know the people on my team or on teams that I work with in such a way that I can leverage them Skills uniquely, and I can let them bring their best selves into whatever situation that we're in. I think that's a big part of leadership in the futures is that person centered leadership? I really like that, Jeff, I'm gonna, I'm going to use that one a lot. No free.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:16

Great. Well, we are right on time, one minute over. But I want to thank thank you, Deanna. And thank you, Jeff, and john, for joining us tonight. And we learned so much about neuro diverse talent, and some things to consider for our business leaders, when they're thinking about building diverse talent at their companies. So thank you again to our audience members for tonight, and we hope to see you again at a future tamer center social impact webinar. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai