Cold Water Bathing: Scientific facts you need to know - Susanna Soeberg | Growth Island Ep #74

ChatGPT Summary:

The speaker is discussing the popularity of cold water swimming, particularly in Denmark during the winter months. They mention that many people have been posting about it on Instagram and ask Senna, an expert on the topic, to share more information about the health benefits of cold water swimming and the science behind it.

Senna explains that they have a PhD in basic metabolism research and have written a book on the topic of cold water swimming and brown fat. They mention that brown fat is different from white fat in that it increases metabolism and can help remove white fat from the body.

Senna goes on to discuss the health benefits of activating brown fat through cold water exposure, including improved blood sugar regulation, increased metabolism, and a boost in the immune system. They also talk about the benefits of cold water swimming for mental health, including reduced stress and improved sleep.

Overall, the content of the transcript suggests that cold water swimming can have significant health benefits, particularly for activating brown fat and improving metabolism.

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Human physiological responses to immersion into water of different temperatures

Šrámek, P., Šimečková, M., Janský, L. et al. Human physiological responses to immersion into water of different temperatures. Eur J Appl Physiol81, 436–442 (2000). https://doi.org/10.1007/s004210050065

Abstract

To differentiate between the effect of cold and hydrostatic pressure on hormone and cardiovascular functions of man, a group of young men was examined during 1-h head-out immersions in water of different temperatures (32°C, 20°C and 14°C). Immersion in water at 32°C did not change rectal temperature and metabolic rate, but lowered heart rate (by 15%) and systolic and diastolic blood pressures (by 11%, or 12%, respectively), compared to controls at ambient air temperature. Plasma renin activity, plasma cortisol and aldosterone concentrations were also lowered (by 46%, 34%, and 17%, respectively), while diuresis was increased by 107%. Immersion at 20°C induced a similar decrease in plasma renin activity, heart rate and systolic and diastolic blood pressures as immersion at thermoneutrality, in spite of lowered rectal temperature and an increased metabolic rate by 93%. Plasma cortisol concentrations tended to decrease, while plasma aldosterone concentration was unchanged. Diuresis was increased by 89%. No significant differences in changes in diuresis, plasma renin activity and aldosterone concentration compared to subjects immersed to 32°C were observed. Cold water immersion (14°C) lowered rectal temperature and increased metabolic rate (by 350%), heart rate and systolic and diastolic blood pressure (by 5%, 7%, and 8%, respectively). Plasma noradrenaline and dopamine concentrations were increased by 530% and by 250% respectively, while diuresis increased by 163% (more than at 32°C). Plasma aldosterone concentrations increased by 23%. Plasma renin activity was reduced as during immersion in water at the highest temperature. Cortisol concentrations tended to decrease. Plasma adrenaline concentrations remained unchanged. Changes in plasma renin activity were not related to changes in aldosterone concentrations. Immersion in water of different temperatures did not increase blood concentrations of cortisol. There was no correlation between changes in rectal temperature and changes in hormone production. Our data supported the hypothesis that physiological changes induced by water immersion are mediated by humoral control mechanisms, while responses induced by cold are mainly due to increased activity of the sympathetic nervous system.

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Transcription of Youtube Video: (By https://huggingface.co/spaces/jeffistyping/Youtube-Whisperer)

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Thank you for tuning into Growth Island again. I have been posting a lot about cold water

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earlier and I love jumping in the cold water than a sauna and it's been extremely popular

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in Denmark or with the winter. If ever you went to Instagram, at least in my feed, I would

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constantly see someone jumping. But why is it actually that we do it? How good is it

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for you? What are the health benefits and what's that weird thing called brown fat or

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what are we learning about then? So today I got an expert in on the subject is to send

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us a bell. She is a researcher. She has a PhD in basic metabolism research and she has

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a specialization in cold water and brown fat. So I couldn't find anyone much better to

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talk about this subject. She also wrote a book about this topic and she's being featured

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many different places sharing the knowledge about how can we do the cold water swimming

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in the best manner and how do we lift this good light. So, Senna, thank you so much for

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coming on. Well, thank you very much for inviting me. I am very honored. So, Senna, how

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do you suddenly get started on researching cold water and brown fat? How does that start?

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Yeah, it's a really good question. How do you end there? It's actually because I was

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always been very interested in obesity and type 2 diabetes and been researching that

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for a while. I did some other metabolism research before I started the brown fat research.

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So I've been in another topic before that. But then I met this other supervisor researcher

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who was very passionate about something called the brown fat. And the brown fat could

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do something different from the white fat. So, the white fat is storing the energy in

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the body and you get more white fat and you want to get rid of it actually. And this

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is a brown fat type. I actually can increase your metabolism and it can remove the white

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fat. So, it increases your metabolism. And I thought that was really interesting that

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you can have two types of fat working completely different. The one is storing and the other

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one is expanding then. So, I really wanted to look into that. I just thought the topic

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was really exciting and very new because we don't know that much about the brown fat.

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So when I got into this we knew something that has been research for maybe 10, 15 years

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or maybe a little less. And I could actually contribute with something new here. So,

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I thought that was really exciting to get on board really early.

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Cool, good. And just to clarify, someone is sitting out there. I'm very white. I don't

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have any brown fat. All human beings have white fat and brown fat. It doesn't have anything

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to do with skin color.

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No, that's a good question. So, it has nothing to do with your skin color. Like many other

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things, it has nothing to do with skin color. Everybody has white fat and everyone.

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Almost people have brown fat but not all. We found out that some people actually don't

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have brown fat. We could talk more about that later on who has it and why does it disappear

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and how can we maybe regain it? Really interesting topic for you after me. And that's why winter

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swimming comes in.

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That's a good thesis. We're getting into, I think I read one of you post potentially

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about it, which is quite fascinating about babies. But if we start with the winter swimming,

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a winter bathing or cold water, it's getting a lot of attention then we're also because

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of the lockdown and many plays around the world. So it's one of the things we've been

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able to do. But it's something that people have been doing for thousands of years. Why

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is it so good from a health perspective?

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Why is it so good for your health? The question is probably also first, is it good for your

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health? I took that for granted from the services that I've written.

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Yeah, is it good for your health? So, there's been many studies looking into the health

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of winter swimming. And there's been many studies only looking at one outcome and I think

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that is also how you need to do it because you can't measure everything, but everything

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is actually activated in the body when you jump in the water. So, so many things happens

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because you activate your sympathetic nervous system. And that is your fight and flight.

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So you really get alert because of the cold. It's so cold that the body sees it as something

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extreme is happening. You might die. So, that is the one system. But it also activates

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your diving response because you submerge into the water. And that is a reflex. So, you

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have also activated the parasympatic nervous system. So, you have two systems that you have

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activated. And when you do that, you get some health benefits from it because activating

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your sympathetic nervous system is also what we know from exercise and running. You will

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increase your metabolism. And from the parasympatic nervous system, you will activate a

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satanine and a cortisol, which is also able to calm you down and also makes you more mentally

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balanced. So, that's maybe why people who went to swim when they get up, they both feel

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excited at first because of the neuropinesis and the release and endophins and dopamine

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in the brain and all these neurotransmitters going on in the brain at the same time. But

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after a while, you will also feel a bit more calm. And that's also because of the activation

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of the parasympatic nervous system. So, two systems working together, maybe in a conflict

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at first when you jump in the water, but then later on, then you will have both things

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actually going good for you as good things. But we don't have human studies where we have

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measured how much dopamine is released in the brain when you jump in water. We don't

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have that yet. I don't know if it's even possible to measure that in the brain in humans,

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but it's been measured in mice. So, we have that from mice, but not from humans yet.

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But we think it can be related at least. And it also fits with how people are feeling

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and how they explain the experience afterwards. But first, I need to know that we actually

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have that, I find them all that they can do science. The more we realize how little we

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know, especially the brain, because it's so like when you're going to sleep as well,

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like what can we actually measure, right? The massive bit as you're saying is coming

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from us because we're doing horrible experiments on them. But that are like then hopefully

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doing something for humans to be able to live better. But first things are here. And

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also like those those two systems being actually at the same time. Do we know any other

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like states of mind or activities where we get those two systems activated at the same

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time because often this one being more activated than another, right?

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Yes, exactly. So, and not that I know of, because the thing with the parasympatic nervous

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system activation, it comes from the diving response. So you need to submerge into water

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and you don't really do that other than from swimming, I guess, that I think it makes sense.

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If you want both activated at the same time, but but you can get this, I call it post swim

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as high. When you afterwards, if you're very happy and lightheaded and from the running

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and the hormones and and signaling in the brain. And you also get that from running, but

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you need to run a bit longer time to get the same runners high as you get from the high

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post swimmer's swimming high. But but you still get the same feeling afterwards of being

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happy and feeling good. So, so you can get that good feeling from other things than just

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winter swimming. But now we're only talking about the the brain right now. There are other

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things we in the in the body happening. So yeah.

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So talking about winter swimming, a question that I often get is like how cold I've been

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told between 12 and 14 degrees is where you get the majority of the benefit, but I haven't

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seen the references on it. Have you come across anything in your research about like when

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is it cold or like how cold is it when we do the studies?

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There is like a threshold on 15 degrees. So at 15 degrees and under you can call that

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cold water and cold water swimming. And that is where you get the most cold shot response.

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So from 15 degrees, Celsius, but I mean where you get the most benefits, I think you asked

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me that as well. I haven't seen studies looking at specific things and measuring at this

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temperature when you go in water at 12 degrees, you would get more benefit from what exactly.

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So I think there is a lot of claims out there saying that you if you went to swim at 12 degrees

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or something, then you get the most benefit. We don't know what degrees we should recommend

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anything or say here you get there's a window here. It's just cold water. We know from

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the studies performed in the laboratories and also a few wild swimming randomized control

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trials out there, but there is not much on it. And then you can just see what temperature

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did they measure from and in and the degrees varies a lot, but it's all cold water.

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From zero or four degrees and up to 15 degrees, that's cold water and that's where you get

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a cold shot response. That's also where you get activated your sympathetic nervous system

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and parasympatic nervous system. So I guess the benefits must be in that window when it's

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just cold water. Interesting. So I often try to look at like the 80-20, where do you get

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80% of a soul, 20% of the effort. And I think it's super fascinating when it comes to cold

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water because for some people it feels very uncomfortable. So it's 15 degrees enough because

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that's much more doable for them. For most people, especially if you haven't been practicing.

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Now I like to go down to even colder water. Also I have a sauna right next to close to where

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I live. So like going down to like that four or five or six degrees gives a different feeling

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like a bigger pressure on the body, but finding that threshold, but that might be for another

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PhD or research area. Definitely. I think that that could be, I'm not saying that there

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couldn't be some kind of benefit from going colder or warmer. I can't say whether it's

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better or good for something. There are so many things going on in the body when you

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go down in water. You need to look at it and I'll come and say it's, we are now measuring

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a lot sugar or we are measuring a hormone and saying, what if we go colder and what if we

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go warmer? So we can't really say just in general, you will benefit mostly from warmer

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colder water. You need to have a lot more studies on this topic to know exactly what is,

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just cold water is actually doing all these things that we see. So yeah. And how, so,

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and I guess it also depends on how much fat you have. If people are super skinny, it feels

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colder, at least that might be an open legend. When I was a small kid, I was extremely skinny

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and my parents took me to swimming and I would always come up being like my teeth will

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like cling together and pull me out of the swimming.

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Like that little pulling, it's like so cold, we're trying to feed him but he'd like

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he only wants to eat like no, no, no. So that might also has an effect, right? Make it

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even more hard to do the studies. What's your body composition?

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Yeah, so body composition is a big deal when it comes to habituation also. So there's

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been a very interesting study also in a obese subjects and also in lean subjects and

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now you measure also you mentioned the children. So there's been studies looking at children

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compared to healthy men and with the same BMI, the same fat percentage in the children

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in the end of the adults to see what if they go down in cold water, will the children

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get colder than compared to the adults? How can they stand the cold just as long as an

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adult? And the studies found actually the young boys were quicker cold but they maintained

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their core temperature just as well as the adults but they increased their metabolism

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more. So they had increased probably brown fat but we don't know but probably and also

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activation of their skeletal muscles to keep themselves warm. So this tells us that

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children can go with the swimming but they have a much smaller surface area compared

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to an adult so they can keep up the core temperature just as long as an adult which means they

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will increase the metabolism to keep themselves warm so they can stand just as long time but

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they need more energy to do it. They wouldn't be able to stay in the water as long time

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as an adult. So children can go in and dip but they need to go up really quickly as well

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to get warm. So I've been asked a lot about this question with children and I think it's

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really important actually that you brought it up also it's important that children are

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safe when they went to swim so at all should keep an eye and not let the children like

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swim a lot in the cold water. Yeah that actually leads to one of the next things I would

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love to discuss with you as a son is like so if you know 15 degrees that's cold water

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then like how long because I went to a Wimhoff event in London at the place you're being

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part of the team and we did all this breathing exercises in the cold water and we had to try

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it afterwards and I had seen like hundreds of people go into the water right and they were

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sitting there and doing like the two minutes which was the the thing that they were being put in

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and then we were sitting there afterwards and they didn't sell us a clock and we were of course

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trying to be like trough that we could be and now we've seen all these people that look like old and

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and like not in the best shape and so on they could stay there right we had it up being there

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for four minutes and then the guys were laughing at us afterwards being like you only need to

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and they were like you actually didn't need to stay that long because the frequency was struggling

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but it was kind of fun like two guys sitting there like yeah loving it we're loving it

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it's fantastic it's fantastic to sit here oh my god I have a picture where I look very relaxed

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my friend looks very like very precious but I look very relaxed in that one second that picture was

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taken but but we actually know was like true minutes is like I've been told that's where we get

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the majority of the health benefits and like much after two minutes just really gets the same

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have you seen any research on that?

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no but I mean there is no in cold water immersion I haven't really seen that no but there are a

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study showing that if you do cold showers for 30 seconds per day you will increase your immune

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system so you would be less sick so I think the two minutes I don't know I'm not really sure where

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it comes from but I would really like to see why it's actually two minutes so I will go hunting

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for some of my friends that might have told me because I've been selling my friends from

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you've been out doing the winter swimming they're like yeah guys you just need to stay two minutes

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I think it might have been from the guys up in Finland there's a lot of research going both

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from the suners and cold water in Finland but I'll try and find see if I can is the actually a

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study on that there's so many open legends out there about health that's why I really try with

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the podcast as well thinking about like this is do we like where does it come from just like

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the habit to take 21 days turns out to be like it came from a plastic surgeon that kind of something

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about when they would be feeling more normal and kind of set it in one context and got

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re-explained and re-explained and now everyone knows like it takes 21 days to build a habit where it's like

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who said that what yeah yeah what where did that come from right yeah so it just takes a turn and

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takes a turn and then it's yeah and then everybody says it but yeah I guess but the habituation is

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actually habituation means that you get adapted to the cold water so you can stop hyperventilating so

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what happens when you go into the cold water for the first time is a very interesting I think and

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and amazing so when you go into the water your body will almost scream at you and asking you what

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are you doing it feels like you're dying so it's like the dog is like what the fuck are you doing

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it get me out of this are you insane yeah yeah yeah get out get out yeah so it screams at you and the

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reaction is that you hyperventilate because it calls for help you need to get up from the water and

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usually people do they jump off after one second and it's wise because it's your reflex you need

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to survive this so hyperventilation if someone is like what what does that mean yeah so hyperventilation

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is when your breathing goes really fast and the the best thing about that is that you can't really

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fill up your lungs enough and then you will only have like small breathings which really doesn't

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give you enough oxygen in your body so you can faint if it stays that way but usually people jump

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off again I've never seen it as a problem people never stay there in the first time but the good

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thing is that when you try this the first time the body has already learned a lot because it was

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such a big shock for the body and that it already adapted after the first time so when you go the next

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time you will be in less panic also because there's water it's super cold you also a bit excited

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and maybe a little bit nervous so you have a little bit of a higher pulse and blood pressure so

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the next time it will be a little bit more calm and the body will react a little less stressful

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but still you wouldn't maybe measure or tell the difference but after three times and four one

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five then you start to actually feel that the body doesn't react as stressful as it was the first

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time and that's when habituation is starting so habituation to the cold water happens in your

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metabolism so that is your energy expenditure and your hormones but it's also in your skin so

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blood flow to the skin and the norapan effr and some which is released as one of the major

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minds in the body when you go in cold water that will also help you contract your blood vessels

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in your skin so there's a lot of physiology that increases when you get adapted to the cold water

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so habituation if you have gone four or five times you will notice the difference but if you feel

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after first the second time that you didn't really like winter swimming I would advise going

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a few times more and then you will feel more you might end up loving it so you end up loving it

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exactly yeah like how you explain like feel also when the winter season starts again the first time

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some like my body is like dude like how did you get this awful idea and then after a few times I'm like

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and like that feeling is just like it's magical you get down there you learn to breathe

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properly for me breathing learning how to do that probably was also like the key if I go down and like

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but if I go down so I do it in the working then my body is like not deep either so I can sit down

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and I can just breathe easily and kind of it totally changes the feeling in the body and the feeling

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of getting up afterwards is just like undescribable of the entire body just like getting like waking up

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or feeling alive and like it's yeah it's absolutely fantastic but it's not absolutely fantastic

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the first time I I love this story that you tell because it can be explained physiologically as well

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because what is actually happening when you go down in the water and you get control of your breathing

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because you have your techniques and when you do that you can relax earlier in the process

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and then you can stay a bit longer right yes you can stay yeah yeah longer if I'm much longer yeah

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if I'm breathing slowly trying to relax instead of like tensing all up or like moving around fast

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and so on then then then I need to get up really fast exactly so you need to tell yourself I'm good

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I'm okay I'm in a safe place so you feel safe so you can just relax just relax it's not that easy

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actually but what happens is then when you do that then you calm yourself down the the breathing

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gets normal or even decreased a bit you get a low pulse which is stable from when you actually

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also are standing out of the water and the blood pressure is also not affected actually so this

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has been measured in humans where they have looked at the blood pressure and post before and

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during and after winter swimming and there's actually a lot of studies on this and part of my PhD

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was also to gather this literature and actually do like a mean of all the blood pressures

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measured in all these studies and we actually found that when you do that you see that nothing

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really happens with the blood pressure and actually also not the post maybe and if you are new

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winter swimmer but there's not increase in post of blood pressure when you go down in the water

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so I think this is something people often think that you get a super high post of blood pressure

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or whatever but actually maybe that's related to panic or just nervous nervousness so and then you

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got off again from the water and then you feel this tingling all over your body right yes yeah it's

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amazing that's I think that is the most amazing part you get up and you get this high energy and

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you don't feel cold even though the wind is there and I think that is so that is so amazing and

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what happened there is actually that when you go in the water nor a penneffrin is released in your

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body and what is that nor penneffrin that's a fancy word like yeah if you haven't studied that or

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you like yeah yeah what is what is nor penneffrin it's released both as a hormone from the adrenal glands

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and it acts in parallel with adrenaline which we know from when we get high from exercise

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a nor penneffrin is also released in the brain as a neurotransmitter so as soon as you touch the water

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you get cold in the wind there is cold receptors in the skin with sense a signal to the temperature

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regulating center in the brain because we need to always measure in the body are we getting cold

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are we getting too hot because it needs to warn you to get away and escape this danger of the

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temperature so the cold water is the danger and it sends the signal to the brain this is not good

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and then it releases nor penneffrin because that gives us both energy but it also sends the

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signal to the skin whether small blood vessels which contract because you want the blood to go

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into the center of the body to keep the vital organs warm so it's just a survival thing

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but when you then get up on the bathing bridge and you stand there and you feel good and you feel

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it's just tinkling all over your body in the skin it's because your nerve ends are in numb they

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got numb from contracting the blood vessels but also from nor penneffrin

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got it so talking about more of the benefits i've read somewhere that one of the benefits is that

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it decreases inflammation in the body the cold water so this can be really good because we

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want to decrease inflammation if you are working out to get really buffed at BIC and want to gain

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a lot of muscle you might want to wait a little bit because the inflammation is also a breakdown

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the muscles and then rebuild them but otherwise if if you want fast recovery then the cold water is

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really good and why some of the athletes are using cryotherapy is kind of a way of mimicking

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cold water is that a line would like the research you've done or what you've read

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are you asking specifically about the crown thing or can you hear it?

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more the cold water so the cold water if it actually lowers inflammation because that's what

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many of the people that I follow that talk about cold water as well as saying like that's one of

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the benefits of the cold water yes so the cold water definitely has a connection to the immune system

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and we see in studies that it can lower the locustutes and also increases the locustutes and

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they also the monosuits in the beginning but when you get habituated it decreases so that's

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quite funny what happens actually when you are new winter swimmer and then when you are habituated

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trained winter swimmer so it decreases and yeah and I've also seen this in my studies but I can

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explain that in a bit but what happens is that you also get an increase in your antioxidants

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which has also been shown in studies of winter swimmers that they have an increase anti-oxidants

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and the anti-oxidants are these it's good to have because we have these three radicals in the

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body and you want to get rid of those and with age we get more and more of them and especially if

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we also have bad eating habits then you get more free radicals in the body and you want to get

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rid of those and with antioxidants you can so winter swimmers apparently have a better immune system

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because of the anti-oxidants, locustutes and monosuits so what happens when you are trained winter

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swimmer so when you have this boosted you can say immune system it takes away the inflammation in

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the body so it takes away inflammation in all the blood vessels but also if you have a joint

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which is sore or you have ramititis is a thing called yeah ramititis so one of my big good friends

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has that and he does a lot of winter swimming because it really often yeah and it makes sense

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because it takes away the inflammation and also if there was any swelling in the joint then it

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also takes that away a bit so I think a lot of people do winter swimming if they have some kind

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of a skeletal pain or they have ramititis or something like that that's been shown in a question

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now which has been a global sauna questioner I think it's called and I think it was a really high

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percent it was 80% answering the main reason for winter swimming was actually having some kind of

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pain in the body but when you have a trade winter swimmer you can imagine that you have already been

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cleaning up all this say extra inflammation there is the body and then you really don't need the

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high level of lucrosydom monosyth in the body so it maybe even decreases a bit because it's already

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been cleaned up more inflammation so yeah how often should it go winter swimming I think that's

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the next like is it like yeah I do cold waters showers in the morning when I'm back in Denmark

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because the water is actually cold where here in the Dominican it doesn't get us cold but like so

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that I do that every morning as it's kind of like the ending of my shower but like jumping into

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the cold water how often would you how often do you do it and how often would you like recommend

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someone to do it so it's difficult to recommend something that is that bold to do so I think

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people should do what they feel they can make time for of course and it should be fun it should

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not be something if you don't do it three times per week then it's not healthy or something like

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that but I can say that from my own studies I have had winter swimmers who have who went three times

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per week and for a whole winter swimming season and that showed some healthy benefits at least so

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I can say that if you go three times you can see a difference when you look at a group of winter

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swimmers compared to a control group so three times must be a good place to go but I myself you asked

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and don't have the time always to go three times per week because I also I'm a mom I have so many

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things going on so I go sometimes one time two times three times sometimes five times if there is

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ice then I go five times so I think it depends you shouldn't make a sharp ruler around it if you

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are a busy person but if you can just go even one time I think can do a lot for you so have we

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seen anything about like you know you can actually overdo it as well because like often things

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is about balance right so some of you who like this is good for you like red light therapy

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foot trip by modulation is fantastic but you don't want to overdo it because then it can have

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a negative effect have we seen anything in regards to cold water be like guys girls take a chill

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so take it easy on the cold water yeah there is no scientific study measuring you can say those

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response so you look at how many times do you go and when is it good in this window and when

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does it get bad or you don't even have an effect so we don't have that study yet so I can't

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really say anything about that but I have seen in my own studies and I did this a big randomized

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control trial where I had a group of people who all wanted to swim and half of them were then

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randomized to swim and the other one was a control group and the winter swimmers

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there was a guy all in he really really wanted to do a lot of winter swimming so he performed

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his three times winter swimming he forgot to ask if there should be like a rest day in between

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so he went to swimming three times in a row the first week he started and he called me and said

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I don't really get it I have the chills in my sofa at in the evening hours after coming home

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and I've heard this before described by other people so I think when you're not habituated

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to the cold water you will experience that you get super cold from going in the water

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but as soon as you go up the blood vessels opens again to the skin and then the warm blood from

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the center of your body will go out into the peripheral arms and legs and then it will have

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you will have a small decrease in your temperature in your cold temperature even so if you are cold

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in the water you can also experience getting a bit colder actually afterwards because you need to

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heat up again all the blood so when he gets the chills into the sofa at in the evening it's probably

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because there's a reaction or something where the body needs to heat up again and it's not used

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to that much cold water so yeah so if you have after chills like that maybe you should

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to take take a chill with the winter swimming I would say yeah and yeah and and start slow I mean

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it doesn't really makes a lot of sense and I think there's also like you can make like

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where you can make studies and everything but it's not the same as you like really get any

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proper results of it and it's like also feeling your body like we can do the control studies and

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work works for the majority of people but it's also feel how your body is reacting know that the

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first couple of times might not be as pleasant and then do you feel good from taking like if it's

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four times or five times and how long you're staying down and then actually kind of evaluate instead

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of just being like oh this study told me I should go six times but if you're not feeling like good

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from it yeah and so that makes a lot of sense at least intuitively for me yeah exactly I would love

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to get that like five times optimal no more than five times but yeah we would like that because

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we like the rule we like to know when do I know I get the benefit but I mean I think we will know

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sometime in the future somebody is going to do this study and it will be super exciting to know

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if there is this dose response with cold water yeah for sure yeah quickly what up who shouldn't be

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doing cold water swimming so people who suffer from heart diseases are not advised to swim and

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that's because of big shock of the cardiovascular system and the conflict between what I started

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introducing the sympathetic nervous system contra the parasympatic nervous system so this is

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really a struggle for the heart actually so if you suffer from that you should not go winter

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swimming oh at least you should go to your doctor and consult because that is the safest thing to do

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gotta what about if you're sick like if you have to flu and so on but yeah so if you are sick

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feeling not well if you're dizzy for some reason you should not go winter swimming is not safe

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and if you are sick then you go and stress your body with the cold and that could actually just

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make it a bit worse so wait until you are you are feeling really good or feeling at least healthy

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and well so the cold water swimming would not be a way to recover faster you would actually say

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even though if you can have it in a safe manner you don't drown your tail like it doesn't seem to

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be something that benefits the faster recovery recovery from what yeah if for example the flu or

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if you have a cold cold the flu I wouldn't say no you need to rest in your house and not going

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actually those it was quite interesting because there was this the sciences from I think

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Jim Jimi Kuri or something like that I think I have it in my book somewhere but he he went on this

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a cruise and and on his boat he got really sick and he started pulling cold water on his head

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and he felt better afterwards but he found out later that was not really a cure for his flu

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but it just for just temporary took away his fever and he felt a bit better afterwards so it

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can reduce the fever for a very short time but it's not advisable because it doesn't really cure

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anything it just makes maybe it worse in the end because you stress the body got it so I will

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next time not jump in the water or so on and right after no no but we didn't talk about the brown

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fat and the winter swimming the connection so I don't know if you want that if we have time depends

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on your back like when you have to run off yeah so I think we can we I think we could take that

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as well because if you ask me that is the new interesting is stuff there is about winter swimming

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and metabolism so yeah so what's up with the brown fat so the brown fat is this healthy fat

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that you have in your body it's located under your clavicular bones and down your spine and it's

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activated by cold so by noripineffin and like I told before when you go into the cold water or if you

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cold air you will have the cold receptors sending the signal to the brain to release noripineffin

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and then you will also have activation of the brown fat and it comes immediately so it's really

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really fast and what does the brown fat do it generates heat and it's super good because there's

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small children infants they don't have the ability and the muscle to shiver the first maybe six

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months or so but they have a lot of brown fat down the back and like a radiator it heats the

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the body when it gets cold so that's really really good but with time we can see from pet CT

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scanning that the brown fat amount decreases with age and we also seen in science studies that

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the brown fat also decreases with a BMI and also type 2 diabetes so what we thought was very

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interesting finding out why do some people have brown fat why do people have brown fat and one

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some don't and why does it decrease with age or BMI so can you actually regain some of your brown fat

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after 40 we have seen in studies that after 40 you have less brown fat so there is like a

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at-trust hole there when you turn 40 apparently so the metabolism goes down and maybe that is

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actually what is going on maybe you lose the brown fat and then the metabolism goes down or maybe

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it's the other way around we don't know exactly but we see that so we found a in studies where

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subjects have been wearing a cooling vest or sleeping in a cold room for a month

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in a cold room is that lower than 15 degrees and again or no so that was actually 19 degrees cold air

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but you are also in the room for a longer time you sleep there for 8 hours and during a whole month

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so they took this group and they pet CT scanned them to see the brown fat in a month where they

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slept at 24 degrees and then they slept for 19 degrees a month and then they saw that there was

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an increase in the brown fat amount in the body which increases your metabolism when you are cold

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and we really want that right because we want to get rid of all the blood the too much blood

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sugar high blood sugar and you want to get rid of the white fat so when the brown fat is activated

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by cold it uses sugar and fat from the bloodstream and that is why we think that if we can gain more

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brown fat or increase the activity more you can lose weight. The short story why winter swimming

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should be should have some connection to the brown fat is that you can maybe boost your brown fat

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amount or the activity in it or some way changes so it will increase your metabolism and we see

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from the studies where they have slept in a cold room where we are in cooling best for 10 days or

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that they also increase their insulin sensitivity and that is very interesting because that's probably

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has some connection with increased metabolism from from using muscles and the brown fat.

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Interesting, so I've read that the ideal room temperature for sleep is between 18 and

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20 degrees to get you into the deepest stages of sleep but that also speaks to

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then actually the brown fat. So I think it's so fascinating how we are learning about

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the human body and how everything is connected right? Like how one advice that speaks to one

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thing also has spill over benefits that we are now starting to find a way to actually measure

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and quantify a bit more so we're like this is why it makes sense. Yeah it makes sense but you

399

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need to look into a lot of studies to connect the dots but that is why it's so interesting and

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super good that you do this podcast because then we have also someone actually gathering

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some of this information. I love that. It's going to be so interesting when we in a few years have

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like databases of studies and AI that can actually go in and find all the correlations and then

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bring up new hypothesis that we then have to test other any casualty because there will be a lot

404

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of correlations that are wrong when there's enough data that's why we look at it's a

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statistic that's significant in a study right because if we do studies enough time we will get

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some kind of results and the AI's will find a lot of random correlations that are not that are

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not related but exactly. That's going to be it's going to be a very cool area to be part of when

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we can suddenly find new solutions to stuff that we didn't see before. Yeah I think so too.

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So now what else should we know rounding off about the brown fat and cold water?

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Brown fat and cold water so yeah you got this short story about the connection between

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brown fat and the cold water or cold exposure it's just a general but I think there is already

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enough studies out there showing that if you get a bit cold it's actually healthy for you because

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you activate your brown fat and increase your metabolism and your insulin sensitivity. So if you

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don't mind sleeping a bit colder than you should try it out at least and if you are willing or

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you are curious of trying winter swimming I would say that it doesn't really hurt your

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amount of brown fat either and it probably increases your insulin sensitivity too which is also

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been shown in one study but we also see that in my study so yeah. Thanks and so where can people

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find you you have an active Instagram account? Yeah so my Instagram account is Sanasubar so you can

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go in and check out my features I have written a bit about the brown fat and I will do more of that

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of course and I also show when I publish a new book I have my book translated in English so it

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would be available I hope this year it will be out there very soon and in the book there is

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much of the advice I just gave now but just more thorough of course and also with references to

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studies and of course a lot about my research and brown fat and winter swimming and also stories

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from my actual research from my studies so yeah. Any other places people should you do some talks

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once in a while and where else can people follow you or where is it Instagram this year go through

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or watch the best place? Yeah I think Instagram must be the best place also Facebook I have a

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page on Facebook I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes. Yeah that would be nice. When

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someone goes out they might be like she's cheating she's wearing a hat. It's a really really good

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00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,920

question I like that you just brought that up mess because I'm not cheating or anything let me explain

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that and I just put it in my book actually yeah so I think it's important also a lot of people ask

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me why shouldn't we plunge our head down in the water and the reason for that is that you get such

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a from the head you have a high heat loss actually 80% of your heat loss from the body is from the

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head because it's just exposed and the rest of your skin is covered in clothes so there's a high

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heat loss from the head so when you go into the water and you plunge down with your head under

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you get an even much bigger cold shock from the cold water which could be dangerous and also because

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the blood vessels in the brain cannot contract contract and dilate in the same way as it can in

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the rest of your body so it doesn't really have that capacity so there's actually a risk of fainting

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because of that so it's not advised to put your head in the water but actually wearing a hat then

439

00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:06,079

you can stay a bit longer in the water and it's also safer because you have a smaller heat loss

440

00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:11,599

at least that was good to get so you actually don't advise to put your head on your advice to

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just get it over the shoulders from the day yeah it's enough it's enough it's enough you don't

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00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:21,679

you don't need to have your have your head under the water so that's good to hear I get problems with

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00:44:21,679 --> 00:44:28,719

my ears when I when I swim with my yeah my head underneath when it's cold water so I started

444

00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:35,119

on it to do it to the shoulders and I the boys are giving me a lot of hard time for that

445

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so I'm like guys but now I have a reason to be like I have talked to someone it's like you guys

446

00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:44,639

idiots I'm doing it the right way talk to the PhD that actually did this guy's and I like that

447

00:44:44,639 --> 00:44:52,480

so that's helping me go forward yeah good I'm glad I could help with that yes that I look forward

448

00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:58,400

to the next season to say that if you have to finish up with like one to three advice about how

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00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:03,759

to live a good life it can be also just like jumping into to the water I mean I would advise you

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to follow your dreams and do hard work yeah because then your dreams will continue and do exercise

451

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because that will keep you energetic and it will keep you healthy so you can accomplish what you

452

00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:22,800

really want to do wins the swimming really gives you that energy so I think I have an activity here

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I think I would like to give an advice on because it gives you that energy to go out and they do

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exactly what you want to do not only physically but then you also mentally are on top so yeah

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I advise that beautiful to say thank you so much for saying that's time and comment

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I see you on the podcast thank you for inviting me it was a pleasure